The Grant Williams Episode

[Music]

but that right there

is why

this was so [ __ ] monumental to me i

was telling you off air

all i do is watch crime [ __ ] like i'm

like a junkie yeah [ __ ]

like i'm i'm excessive with the [ __ ]

and i try to put myself in the state of

mind of some of the people i watch right

and they get to that point where they

stand them stand you up and say

are you address the court we'd like to

hear from you now

with the families there

victims [ __ ] that don't believe you

[ __ ] to thank you ain't [ __ ] and i'd

be like yo if i was innocent this is a

trap yeah this is there's no way to like

do this tactfully talking for nothing

if you're innocent but if you're

innocent you you don't want to offend

the victim family you don't want to

you don't want to offend you chilling

you innocent you didn't do this if

people don't believe you there's no way

to get this off right so when you say

damn my microphone

yeah

it's like

that puts it in that puts it in

perspective for me

you wouldn't want to talk to them

i've said everything i had to say

what more do you my i said my bad i

apologize i said i didn't do it

i would erupt

yeah i'll go nuts

i'll turn up in these crime shows i

watch they tell me it's important

to not to not go crazy

even your facial and your body

expressions and [ __ ] like that that's

what they tell me i don't know if i'd be

able to do that did they tell that to

you

yeah they took a whole lot to me you

know i i wasn't listening cause i was

like yo dude you got the right

[ __ ] that did this and you gonna

let me out that's all i was interested

in but let me just introduce myself i

know i'ma introduce you oh we getting

there no no no because i'm gonna get

into it we're getting there i don't know

all right stay less you know what i'm

saying i'm playing a ghost face track i

know it's corny

yeah you got shot my brother listen

up y'all [ __ ] could judge me

sorry but that's how we're going to at

least introduce this thing

i had a shot track

queued up but i'm not going to do it

i'm not going to do it

let's do this the right way

all right so listen to this

you are the gentleman i wanted to talk

to

like this is the conversation i wanted

to have

it was super important to me i read the

paper as soon as it came out

blown away as soon as i read it

and when we started communicating i was

like yeah that's important i'm not

prepared for your family to come in here

i'm not i me personally am not so

yeah i'll say like i told parks man shy

i don't have to tell because me and him

ran around for a little bit

ghost is in all of our top tens here

and no question i feel like they should

tell you when somebody a top 10 list is

at least going to be present

heard me while out about the verses the

ghosts and ray and he didn't even tell

me that ghost face was walking in my

front door no he didn't know

yeah ain't no

say vine back there like yo

that's that's the ghost face

should i not say grant

tell me no no you know grant williams is

a very famous now i'm proud of you know

what i'm saying

you call me grant williams aka joseph

sharp aka big huh yes

[Applause]

yes sir yes sir yes sir

we have special guest grant williams in

the building thank you for coming

yes thank you for being here yes how you

doing

i'm feeling better these days you know

it's a long it was a long journey for

those who don't know my story you know

wrongly convicted second to 25 to life i

was just turned 25 years old i can't

comprehend this

you know so you just turned 25 i was

turning 20. this is 97 yes and i got 7

to 25 to life and 97.

so

it was like i didn't i didn't believe it

was going to happen you know i figured

they'd get the right guy

you know and then i started realizing

the system that

if you've been in any type of trouble

when you was a youth it's more easier

for them to put a crime on you because

your lawyer is going to recommend

don't take the stand because you've been

convicted in the past

you know so you're like a more of an

easy talk this is what everybody don't

look at

you know it's brothers who don't get in

no trouble when they put these type of

crimes on them but the ones who has been

in trouble in the past

you're much much more easier talking so

at the time you had a jacket

i had a yeah i had i was convicted when

i was younger

and um i strongly believe that because

of that conviction they already had it

laid out like okay we we already know

that his lawyer is not going to that his

lawyer is going to recommend he don't

take the stand and people want to know

if you didn't do it they want to hear

you talk

you know and i'm like yo let me get on

stand tell my story

ah williams don't worry about it the

case seems strong listen let me tell

what happened

like just to sit there and be quiet is

one of the worst films in the world when

you can't defend yourself already

already you get into one of the

questions i have when i watch these

shits on tv where i'm like

if it were me

and i were innocent

no matter what i was going through in

the court with the cops and the jury and

the judge and all that i would have such

a

a beacon of light at the end of the

tunnel because i didn't do it

i would feel like hey y'all could say

whatever the [ __ ] you want to say

if you go out and go try to find who did

it then i'll be exonerated but

not not that simple

nah

it's not that simple

you know in the perfect world that's how

that would go

but unfortunately in the world that

we're living today especially as young

black men you know

we're always targeting in different

areas it's just not when the

conservation is with a whole lot of

things crime

everything that's no good you see a

black face you know what i'm saying

whatever it is it's always oh they lead

the motion high diabetes or they do the

most crime it's always a black face it's

like nobody else but then everybody want

to be like us this is a you know this is

a scare that you deal with so when you

go into that system you're already

guilty

yeah yeah this is you got to prove your

innocence that's real it's supposed to

be you know i'm innocent to prove and

guilty but it's guilty to proven

innocence how how aware were you of that

at the time

i was i was unaware yeah yeah i was i

was unaware i didn't think it could

happen like i said like when they

arrested me i was like murder

i said it's just this right here i call

ghosts

i was like yo they talking about they

want me for murder that happened

yesterday he was like for real

and then i was with my friend right

there born because i'm about to say

would it would have even with an alibi

man if i had an alibi then i'm really in

there feeling big [ __ ] like yeah

yeah

yeah but i'm gonna tell you yeah i'm

gonna tell [ __ ] something i dick yeah

especially if i have alibi so that meant

nothing

no no no no how could all of these

things mean nothing

well well the reason is because

you know when they want to put a case on

you especially you gotta remember i got

locked up in the 90s you know what i'm

saying so the 90s was the crack era and

and then you know in new york it was so

much murders that they just couldn't

solve more so they just was putting them

on brothers you know especially black

brothers spanish brothers it really

didn't matter even some white brothers

you know what i mean but

blacks and the spanish was the most so

that's why you see today all these

wrongful convictions from those just

from the 90s

where they actually clearing them up so

when you talk about an alibi as soon as

they put the cuffs on you they don't

want to hit none of that guilty [ __ ]

you're getting this

they cuffed you you guilty that's it

tell it tell it tell it when you go to

the jury so they they offer you

ridiculous time

you know you feel you didn't do a murder

i'm not taking [ __ ] i ain't do it

i'm gonna tell you some gangster [ __ ]

right so one time i'm in the court pins

right so i had about a year on racket

sound so i'm like all right let me ask

this lawyer i said yo what's the cop out

so they sent everybody back to racket

salad you know

and they left me there it was like

williams so let's save the court doors

like about 10 feet away they opened up

the court door and they had the cell

open i was the only one in there so they

bought me out they said bring them out

and when i came out it was like it was

some gangster [ __ ] i had three four da's

you know they was always fighting

against the case i have just my lawyer

and the judge was sitting sideways

and i said yo so what's the cop out

they said all right well you've been

convicted take 12 and that's 25. i said

i didn't do it why would i take that why

would i tell you you know what i'm

saying that's crazy

and they sat back and it's just crazy

they said yeah we know you ain't do it

you know straight up so i'm looking at

my lawyer like yo you heard them no

i swear that everyone loved me that pops

so we'll go down to a flat 10.

i said they said you do eight years and

four months

i said i'm not taking that [ __ ] yeah i

think y'all is you know i got offended

you know and i was you know a little

immature i didn't know what the hell was

going on i just didn't think it could

happen yeah i'm getting goosebumps but

yeah even if i was innocent i may have

thought about it a little bit no not

that's what they want your dog

that's my design no i get it i totally

understand

tim was like forever

you know

so next thing i know maybe about a

couple of months later

like i was saying they was like bringing

the first panel i didn't even know what

the hell the first panel was i tell

everybody i tell a story all the time i

turned around and cleared the courtroom

i turned around and looked back oh i

thought it was snowing all white faces

no black people these are jurors

so i'm like yo that's the best and i

hate this game

no at that point you could yeah you know

what i said to myself 25 to life

i knew it

you know

that was the first that's the first that

was my first thought i zoned off when i

was like were you kept up to date at all

but between your lawyer with the the

process of jury selection even was that

a surprise to you

what you mean like kept up like [ __ ]

like when you say the first panel came

in it was all white faces yeah i was

surprised because i never experienced

none of this in my life i never went to

try out i never knew about you could you

know how many you know challenges you

got so if you got a murder you get 23

challenges and the da get 23 challenges

so you got a panel of 50 to 100 people

coming in so if you only got 23

challenges and you got majority

caucasian people some of them cops i got

to use my challenges to get them off so

now when you bring about the third pound

of win when you see a few black faces

you don't have no more challenges and

black people don't want to sit on the

jury they don't okay

yeah they'd be proud to do that

i've contributed my part ma'am think

about what he said

i'm thinking about all this no you 25

you got a jacket

you go get some [ __ ] that

because it's supposed to be a jury of

our peers you're a 25 year old black boy

from the projects

some white lady from long island ain't

my [ __ ] peer yep that's a fact

you know what i'm saying and then they

build it up like yeah he snatched the

pocketbook when he was 12. they'd be

like yeah yeah

we gotta get him off the street he did

it yeah he did it before we don't gotta

hear [ __ ]

you did it

and that's crazy my [ __ ] well no i know

it's a shame that you have to kind of be

well informed on the business of the

court system

to really get your [ __ ] off like yeah

it's a shame that like this was a

surprise all the [ __ ] he said he was

proud [ __ ] i didn't know i didn't know i

didn't know i didn't know but they run

into business still

like they gotta pin this somewhere on

somebody

did you

um

i feel like this is almost a stupid

question but i have to ask because

you're innocent

what was the feeling from like the

families of people that maybe didn't

believe you or just anybody that didn't

believe you

well you know a lot of people on stat

now because they was out there that day

it happened in broad daylight so they

seen what happened they seen what

transpired but you know people don't

like to deal with the courts

of course you know so that came

afterwards but um

you know like the family the victim's

family they came into court i believe

like

like i ain't even know the dude had a

sister like i know her so i turned

around it was like the courtroom was

there for me you know my family and my

friends basically filled the whole

quarter the victim's family wasn't there

because they probably because they knew

i didn't do this [ __ ] you know what i'm

saying so when i turned around

i seen the victim sister not knowing

that that's his sister i'm giving her

like you know what's going on and she

looking at me with the gas face like

he was screwing me so i'm saying and i

started playing two two together i seen

what she was sitting and i said oh okay

she want to play this game and she live

in the hood and she know i didn't do it

you know i had nothing to do with it but

i understand now that the victim's

family wants somebody to pay you see

them saying whether they got the right

guy the wrong guy they want somebody to

go down that's [ __ ] he didn't do it

they locked him up for the reason [ __ ]

that you got to deal with yeah you know

what i'm saying so at that point

someone's angry yeah they hurt right

they hurt someone somebody got to pay

nah but

that's real [ __ ]

now i'm just saying but

in our hoods cause we all come from

basically the same [ __ ] right

broad daylight some might get shot i'm

assuming yeah yeah you got it somebody

gets shot

if the hood know who did it how do you

like one of your own go to jail for it

yeah stop this come on stop that's

because i'm not talking about white

america i'm talking about hours i will

tell you how ish cause you just like he

said [ __ ] hood and keep a secret yeah

the hood ain't coming to court and who

to keep a secret ish who won't be the

person to go to court and say yo it

wasn't him it was him no you ain't gotta

say one it was him but you gotta be like

nah i wasn't him

who wasn't how you know it wasn't him i

guess that opens them up the two we know

come on we know this okay so

the lawyer

panel jury no i'm not taking that i'm

innocent i didn't do this we fighting

this

right

when it when when you find out that

you're going down guilty

you're tapping lawyer appeal this i'm

out of here that wasn't that wasn't

going like that

when they said guilty i went off in the

court i got the articles to this day

they said they were saying that i was

trying to escape i wasn't trying i was

just just like anybody else that's

innocent you don't believe me like i

don't know i'm guilty hey wait up wait

up yeah let me out just

right so they all you know you know they

all you know restrained me officers and

everybody in the courtroom got up it was

that's how i imagined it would go when i

watched this [ __ ] on the tv

it was like it wasn't just that quiet

like guilty and that was it it was

eruption in the court you know i'm

saying everybody was like what because

it was too much evidence that was

displayed at trial that i'm not gonna

get too much until right now that prove

my innocence

you follow what i'm saying so it was a

and listen

i don't care what nobody says

racism

strong

because

it was the only eye witness it was a one

eyewitness and he was caucasian

you know what i'm saying it was all

caucasian jurors and it all boiled down

to who they going with who they rocking

with or me

and i seen that [ __ ] firsthand i don't

care what nobody said i seen it and i

had experienced it and

[ __ ] was crazy like when i heard the

guilty like wait up nothing

nothing added though that's the real

reason of why i personally think the

judicial system is flawed grant is

flawed for many reasons but

when you say that justice will be

decided by a jury of our peers

i don't ever think that can be true

because when you put humans there all we

have is our interpretation of things our

experiences

yeah yeah that's it so no you put these

[ __ ] white

it just spells set up it spells set up

to me listen listen to you i get mad

watching it i get mad reading it i get

mad i've read a lot of stories about the

state intentionally trying to get rid of

black jurors for whatever reason they

can yes to win that's why you talk about

the challenges yeah they want they want

you out of here

but why do i have to tackle granite i

didn't do this horrific crime and y'all

think i did which is heavy and

overwhelming enough right why do i have

to unpack racism now

like it's just so nuanced

your conviction of the crime is embedded

in racism

no i know yeah i know you wouldn't even

beat got cuffed from the rip

one i wouldn't listen last week i was

telling y'all that i had some court [ __ ]

that went on where the only reason i was

saved was because there was a neighbor a

nosey neighbor yeah that was recording

yeah

but she was kind enough to give me this

footage it was hers but she gave it to

me and they tried to resist it in the

court but

you see this you see what's going on

right think about that

they can know you innocent

and gotta take to prove your innocence

right these are the people these are the

people that we hire

to protect the server so they got a tape

that says yo he really ain't do this

[ __ ] we trying to suppress that evidence

not to come to trial

who the [ __ ] is you serving

if you know a [ __ ] ain't doing let that

[ __ ] free don't try to suppress the

evidence well that's why i'm listening

to what he said that's crazy monday what

if that neighbor didn't want to give me

the tape because she ain't like me

because i was like

next grant williams you know what i'm

saying you did that time came home and

hopefully you would have got the tape

and it would have proved your innocence

all right so you are roughed in the

court

yeah yeah yeah naturally i know i say

rightfully so yeah that was that was a

natural feeling i believe anybody that's

innocent was said wait up you know i

just couldn't believe it you know and yo

i'm not gonna lie i cried when i was

down and i don't cry and i ain't cried

since that court date

from the only two and a half decades

i said that's it i'm gonna fight these

people you know i'm saying i'm not gonna

deal with my emotions i can let my

emotions see my intelligence i'm gonna

use my intelligence and i'm gonna get

the [ __ ] out of here i'm gonna make it

out of here one day you know i'm not

gonna die in here when did that come

about as soon as they put the cuffs on

me and i blew trial i said i'm gonna

make it out

all right i always had that determine i

you know

i wanted to make sure that

i wasn't gonna get lost in the system

because i was seeing it and i was seeing

it at a young age i seen brothers

getting stabbed to death killed i seen

brothers losing their mind i've seen

they fight what's going on i just

refused to be one of them brothers you

know what i'm saying so when they put

the cuffs on me and they put this crime

on me i was like wait up so i mean right

then when i blew trout

and then and then now i'm up north in

the mountains and these maximum

penitentiaries i'm like yo bouncing

around yeah so i'm saying to myself yo

how the [ __ ] my dad was just laying

there i said nah

that's not gonna be the end of me

that's not gonna help and how my chapter

ended my life

prison and dead and that's that

i'm amazed that your journey didn't

start with discouragement

nah nah

you know i would have started there okay

i'd have been depressed for about yeah i

would have you somebody yo no lie i

cried they gotta cried every hour yeah

no i'm saying because you know what it

is it's like it's just like i said

before i'm no stranger to hard times you

feel what i'm saying so

i know things are going to get rough but

i wasn't expecting that

see that's loud sounding like everybody

talks about what they would have did and

all that but when you place in

situations man

you don't know what you're going to do

but you know you're going to have you're

going to go on survival instance

automatically we'll see that's just

going to kick in that's why as i listen

to you talk listen i don't know nothing

about the stuff that you're saying

but as i listen to you talk i'm trying

to play it out like if it was me what

you would do right

the discouraged portion of what i'm

saying would have had to been

short-lived for me

because then i would have had to get

into what he just said survival jungle

mode yo i didn't do this i'd be an

animal [ __ ] you going

i'm about to lay up with the animals not

this person that y'all saying

but it's on now yeah so we're here i

ain't gonna walk in here just tell all

these [ __ ] i do it [ __ ] i'm gonna eat

this food and go to sleep pea food

and don't you know something too it's

like this is like ghosts i used to call

more time yo

like and my shame were born like this

you know my family that's my strength

you see i'm saying i had to go in and

take the phone and yo yo you know i had

to do what i had to do but that was my

strength when you hear your family and

your people like yo you know saying that

they gonna stand behind you

that gives you more strength you know

what i'm saying and it gives you faith

that you're gonna make it you know what

i mean so i had support but i'm the type

of person like i'm gonna do what i got

to do regardless because i know at the

end of the day i'm locking in that cell

i got one so i got to do everything to

keep my own sanity first

96 because i keep getting into your

shoes right but let me try to step out

of that for a sec right and nine

triumph is 96 91 97.

nah 96 is purple tape yeah iron man

yeah i was there for iron man

but that's your hope but that's just

hope i know but i want to i want to

highlight that yes that's the hope

because this is where we are in the

story

but let's go back now

this is 96

my family is my family's kings of the

culture

my family are the kings of the culture

and this happened and you take me away

from this this happened now you take me

away from the money the girls the trap

nothing that can make that up were

nothing

last week i talked about last week on

this part the nba draft was recently

graham right and uh there was a

gentleman um terence clark clark

who died in a car crash in april and he

was a projected top 10 pick

so when the draft happened

i was saying how

like wow

three months away you're just three

months away from

generational changes right

and damn god

it's different now it's different now

not to that extent because you're with

us

but that's got to be the feeling in 96

that's some [ __ ] oh y'all trying to come

in though y'all see what's going to see

an ice cream video you'll see you'll see

y'all see something that's going on and

you see my family coming to court and my

family is somebody in the social scene

that's a fact we're going to get you

[ __ ] remember him

you hear you hear juice worlds people

now some of the people that was on that

on that uh

jet

talk about how hey we was coming in

and it's like they knew we was coming in

because it's customs but

they was treating us

like they knew we was coming in

it wasn't a normal

so he swallowed a bunch of [ __ ] like and

that's their story to tell but it's just

that paranoia of

are you treating me as sir you're

treating this a certain way i'm being

targeted a certain way this is not going

normal

how was your first week

in jail

please where where where were you at but

you was on trial for what how long you

was on trial 18 months so you so you had

already said no no no no no

no

i was on trial for only two weeks

what

but you sat for 18 months hold on what

y'all don't know is that what i didn't

know and i just found out

was that

my case was solved in four hours what

yeah i just i just i didn't know that

you know and they turned everything over

because you know that goes into civil

court but they i didn't know that

this homicide was solved in four hours

that's that's my man

yeah so incorrectly important

yeah i mean they got me and the case was

closed

what you mean they got the cops locked

you up and stopped so that was it it was

done in four hours

another

how could that be possible it's

impossible you lazy cops [ __ ] yeah it's

sammy this is the same shot

we know cops we listen it's black man

here we know cops what i'm saying is who

the [ __ ] do we call on when we know the

cops is copping

who the [ __ ]

there got to be a pecking order dog we

just said that they could find some

evidence that

literally exotic will exonerate a

[ __ ] and legally

they'll suppress it that's a fact so who

the

[ __ ] that you calling on the

[ __ ] are saying suppress it

yeah

at some point it started being about

legal instead of right if the law don't

necessarily be right well that's why i

was there so they'll follow the rules of

the law instead of following the rules

of morality that turns into good i'm

saying like that's the [ __ ] we want

to put a w up in this yeah like yeah

morality don't play no part in this

they don't have no they don't have no

conscience to even deal with principles

and morals it's like we looking to get

us you know we're looking to make our

career go up and off of grant williams

with a murder conviction it's like

now i got another notch on the map

that's right right and if you could

convict the innocent that's hard it's

easy but it's hard so they know it

that's like a big challenge oh you got

williams oh yeah yo you know and they

know the deal so it's so it's like it's

just a that's why i say man like

mentally

the mind is fragile that's some [ __ ]

somebody could go through that and look

at the case with jay-z with the kids

rest in peace

you know what i'm saying it's like yo

people just saying we're not made to be

caged

you feel what i'm saying we we us us as

humans and animals we like to enjoy

animals and even yeah yeah that's

something like the biggest you know so

when you put somebody that you know that

you know at a certain age in their life

and you still actually even though i'm

25 i'm still i'm still immature

you're still developing

what i'm saying yeah so when you put

somebody in you put them through that

storm it's like yo

oh [ __ ]

you know what i'm saying like what you

gonna do and i said all right so now

became personal with me and i don't

worry about inmates going into jail

something like i'm not worried about

none of that

i mean it's you know but that's

the system was always my problem and my

beef that's what kept me that's what

kept me fighting i said that that [ __ ]

right there when you wage war that keep

you alive yeah like that's your

motivation yeah i slept all day with

that judge turning sideways and they

talking about on some gangster [ __ ] like

yeah well we know you didn't do it and

they listening like it was nothing like

my life wasn't nothing i took that

person that's why i said for the rest of

my life this is what i'm gonna be doing

advocating the truth you see what i'm

saying stills don't happen to nobody

i want everybody you know the raw day

and there's so much more that i you know

but this is this is really uh uh a sad

injustice

and you wouldn't look at me and know

that because

mentally i keep myself strong and by me

speaking about it that's my therapy well

yeah

but i wouldn't look at you and know that

because you got to be the flying snicker

from jail apparently

you look good

when you came home

so so you go up

your family your loved ones your network

give me the give me the sentiment

how they feel

you had to be strong because you this is

your mission to go you'll have but yeah

how your people are feeling i got kids

there was babies how many kids three you

know there's babies

i got two boys and the girls and they

was babies and and it's like you know

one time you know i was on rocket sound

and my son came

and he didn't want to let my leg go

you know what i'm saying i'm like oh

come on come on you trying to yeah you

trying to [ __ ] us up in here

you know what i'm saying i don't like

the like you know

the the stories i got to tell dealing

with this is

it's going to be like nah

you know but that's just a mental scar i

have you know what i'm saying but the

thing is and this is where it's like a

total mind [ __ ] for me i'm sure you got

stories to tell the stories that would

exist

if by chance you weren't here to have

stories to tell like right like i'm a

dad too that's right so

it's funny it's funny we're gonna take a

break cause they aren't gonna give me

the cry here but when i take drop my son

off at like my dad's

and then i'll go

like i'll hear him cry through the door

so i won't want to leave so i'll call

i'll start blowing my dad's phone he's

like yo man he's good

go get out like why you keep doing that

i'm like yo i just can't stand to hear

my baby yeah like cry

like i know he's good i know you my dad

you got it but i can't stand to hear

that so for you to talk about like your

kid grabbing onto the man

and you gotta go back to the joking are

you looking you ain't going you ain't

going here leaving them at school now

jungle because we all we all work like

we all come from what we come from and

we all get it how we get it

and it might not always be the safest

way right

so let's say i don't make it home one

day

and yeah it's [ __ ] up for the people

that love me

but my contribution

to my family

to my kids to my mom to my dad to my

uncles to the people that need me

i'm in heaven

[ __ ] is [ __ ] up down here without me

so yeah he alive mm-hmm yeah

and you're taking them away from

you just [ __ ] up black infrastructure

yeah yeah you just [ __ ] structure

intentionally intentionally

the same design that was happening when

they took the factory jobs away and all

that we can go on and on about this but

when you keep hearing it right yeah

ew nah and this is the crazy [ __ ]

for him i can't

in a million years say hi he had to feel

but dog when you did it

and you sitting there that's like damn i

got court yeah my [ __ ] when you didn't

do it and you sitting there oh man you

full of rage

my [ __ ] that's a different animal like

when you did it you cheated on your girl

i right damn she caught me when you know

you really ain't cheat though you'll be

on fire

you'll be on like yo what the [ __ ] you

talk yo yeah yeah but when you killed

her you like damn she called me

that right but yo fam if you really

didn't do it and you got 25 to life and

you didn't do it i watched 50's show for

life right but i watch it from the

comfort of my home

and

that [ __ ] be going through hell in

there what yeah

the aryans was on him his lawyer was

pulling the move he'd be dealing with it

all he got to read books blurred degrees

fight that he got to fight everything

and i'd be home laughing saying yo

kind of ben went to bed

i don't want to sleep

hey y'all got it

but when you're innocent and when you

win it's like

all right now you're like gotta be able

to prove it and it ain't true that

you're gonna be so frustrated how slow

everything must move

and even in that case when you're

innocent like going back to the for life

[ __ ] every time he found something that

might help him

they jumped out to pull it away from

purposely monday after six months of

waiting to even present it properly or

whatever you don't say sorry you can't

present that now oh we ruled that out to

my next question why does this take 25

years

23 years it was like it was like just

like y'all just said everything i put in

the court they shot it down

and it was holding evidence and it was

destroying evidence and

it's like i had to really like push

their hand like you know and i've been

trying it for a long time what helped me

was that

as i was incarcerated like the the the

law started changing you know what i

mean okay and then brother started

getting out maybe like in 2003 they had

a case called martin tanklef

you know he got out he kind of opened

the door

he was accused of killing his family in

long island so

you know me i studied the law i learned

the law i said man i get the [ __ ] out of

here

my all-day job yeah so when i started

reading then they and then the state

started recognizing that yes people are

innocent because now the office chain's

over it's not the same da's and

prosecutors in there no more you know

now you're talking about

wait a minute

what the [ __ ] is going on so they

started doing wrongful conviction units

in all the boroughs i was just about to

say all the different wrongful

conviction units all the different

third-party programs yes it's

yeah so people because nobody want see

for murder like we like looked upon like

when you when you're a convicted

murderer nobody wants no part of that

because that's like one of the worst one

of the worst crimes

you know when you got these rape or

[ __ ] they'll rape all day and

they'll go in and out the system you

know they're so lenient and all those

type of people they let them rape little

kids and and then they let them out

you know they don't even get no time

hell yeah so now i mean they might have

tightened up the law now late lately you

know you know but i don't want to get

off track with that but um like so when

you're dealing with this system and it's

like you got to fight like i get calls

from first name like you're on yo

i said yo i was in there with a lot of

y'all y'all don't got this you got to

have that warrior spirit like because

they'll make it comfortable they'll get

you can get married and get a trailer in

new york state

it's rough it's a rough prison a weekend

you get a whole weekend yeah they lock

you in you can do it whatever you want

to have fun

and they'll put you in tv but it's drama

so they'll make it it's not like if

you're in a third world country jail

where you ain't eating

you know what i'm saying everybody's

just standing around you [ __ ] and

pissing in the dirt or whatever new york

stay to make it kind of comfortable for

you you follow what i'm saying

and now i [ __ ] all that comfortability i

went out and that was always my fight

and my struggle nothing else mattered i

wasn't the ones getting on the phone

crying yo they did this nah i was one on

the phone yo shaheen yo ghost listen man

yo go do you know saying boom boom boom

boom boom and i never gave up and

sometimes i felt like my family and

everybody was getting oh man you've been

doing that and therefore you know your

mom yeah i said i'm never letting this

go

that take a lot of what i'm saying that

take a lot of um strength right there

alone because i

me myself and i'm pretty sure a lot of

other people

i know i didn't do it but once they come

down with that time

after a certain point it's like a new

reality yeah it's like damn i'm really

i'm gonna just wrap my head around it

yeah like you know i'm gonna have to do

this and a lot of people would give up

mm-hmm that's a fact a lot of people do

i think yeah yeah yeah these [ __ ] are

stronger than me yeah no that's a

different type so you lived in the

library you lived in the lobby yeah i

stayed i stayed you know i'm a barber

too that's why you always see my [ __ ]

you know

ghost is just time to say every time i

call you cutting your hair i say yo man

this is what i do no

no no i see a fresh tape brush little

paper

but now you know mainly i spend my time

in law library you know

got into a whole lot of [ __ ] in prison

in the beginning but it was like yo was

it difficult getting access to that

stuff did they try to stop you from

getting access to stuff no i mean they

would have you in the box but in

population you could you know you could

sign it depends on what jail you went to

like clinton they tried to discourage

you got you i don't know if y'all heard

the clinton down yeah i discovered you

you know they want some real

kkk [ __ ] up there like no talking if i

[ __ ] can't talk how the [ __ ] he gonna

show me how this go you know what i'm

saying no talking williams yeah whatever

you don't say i'm saying i don't want

you to talk and you don't know [ __ ] so

you read in the book that you don't even

understand the language

you see what i'm saying you know even

though they give you access they don't

right you see what i'm saying yeah we're

gonna let you win but you figured out on

your own and that's you know you gotta

yeah you're like that's like one hand

behind your back yeah yeah yeah put

putting the blindfold on [ __ ] push you

in

how many different prisons were you in

throughout

the entire year a lot of them i i the

president you know you could never be

comfortable in prison because

you know you could be laying up and

that's the next day they were like yo

williams pack up you want to draft right

where the [ __ ] i'm going oh i don't know

yet i'm no listen see yo yo tell me

where i'm going now everybody's afraid

of the unknown yeah you know what i'm

saying it's not the point of [ __ ] no

it's just when you don't know what's

gonna happen you're always gonna

naturally go and get butterflies if

you're going into a ring to fight or you

get into a fight in the yard or whatever

naturally you're going to fail

you know you know

we're just going to take you out of your

house and we're going to push you

somewhere else so now you go down there

they shackle you up and i'm on the bus

for eight hours and you're further away

from your family being able to come and

visit the family so i try to stay in the

gym mental [ __ ] crazy yeah that's all

that's awesome that's a mental torture

my [ __ ] now your mom's your mom's might

be older you know what i'm saying your

baby mom somebody got a job two jobs

whatever the case may be they can't

travel nine hours to see you and a lot

of them shit's his way up they can't

just you know

by design

right prison is what i realize

it's the sign of breaking

you feel saying take your self-esteem

you see what i'm saying it'll make you

just like just like you said want to go

to sleep right and and it was you know

people say what's going on so you know i

you know i was a guy that was i'm you

know i'm not just having anything you

see what i'm saying i kept myself strong

like yo so

it was like when people remind you of

who you are when you call home and you

see people that know you from the

streets you get like yeah on that

[ __ ] you know what i'm saying

that's not going out so it gives you

more strength you feel what i'm saying

sure it makes you say yo nah nah then i

taught the ghost of my family and he'd

be like yo when you get out yo doing

this you know what i'm saying always

supportive financially whatever they

could do lawyers or you know that's a

whole different story you know so

it just depends on you

and what you're going to do you know and

it's hard i mean all your support system

like you said imagine if you ain't had

him right yeah every mother can't afford

lawyer fees

every mother can't afford to keep

appealing every mother can't afford to

even put [ __ ] money on your books

right yeah but yeah that's what i'm

sitting here thinking about like

yeah he had people that would have gone

to the end of the earth to get it done

and it still didn't matter still didn't

matter

all that money to that trial lawyer

right go still ain't matter didn't

matter

that didn't matter when they want you

they want you they're gonna get you

you're done yeah that's it like you said

they was done a minute he was getting a

minute they put the cops on while i was

like this is our guy i don't care about

nothing else i don't care what you can

prove don't matter so you did all your

time well you gave something back

no what happened was i had um

i had caught a jail case okay you know

what i'm saying

so when that happened was they

they they put me for

27 years to go to the parole board but

then i want to beaten it so pushing it a

little earlier to go to the parole board

you see okay so technically when i went

to the parole board they got me down as

25 to life but being i gave time back

they want only count in the state time

got it you follow what i'm saying so

but i don't argue about the time you

know

about that

all right whatever

that's crazy but you know it's it's just

a it's just a sad reality you know i

mean i try to you know have to have like

a sense of humor with it because i don't

want to be up here too emotionally

because then we all going to be

emotional you know what i mean now you

and you are in you appear to be in

amazing spirits

you got an amazing story i keep trying

to stop myself from crying while you're

talking

yo so what with regards to your case you

can't talk too much about your case

right

but

you feel confident

that

you're gonna get some it ain't no

justice there it is again my [ __ ] if

they take 25 years from your life i

don't give a [ __ ] if they give you 25

million dollars i don't care [ __ ] it

don't matter you took 25 years of my

life i had kids that was babies no you

you grew up at 20. yeah yeah

that was basically

coming no i'm just saying yo

how do you know i'm 50 right now [ __ ]

looks great

i was sitting there doing man yeah i was

thinking about it

did the whole 25 fam like yo you 50

right you're 50. even if the mixers give

you 25 million dollars dog you don't

have no experiences with your kids you

can't never get that back all right

people in your life done passed away you

can't never see them you can't never

hold them you can't never hug them again

all of that [ __ ] like one of my next

questions like

you're

you're

mental fortitude

is out of this world for real

but what was one of the more

what was the what were some of the more

difficult days

in there i know for me with the people i

noted went up

yeah that's all tough

got it christmases and [ __ ] like that

yeah

like my dad when he was in jail he

couldn't go to his mom's funeral

couldn't go to my grandma's funeral oh

like today that still

is there for him like yeah i lost the

time it was [ __ ] up but i wasn't there

for that

that hurts i know like some of those

like you said just missing the important

dates like yeah you got to deal with

what you got to deal with but

well you know the most difficult day was

not being there with my kids as they was

getting older you know that would that

was every day like i would see them it's

the birthday and i'm like damn it's my

[ __ ] tall you know

so you're going through all of that

right

and as you're balancing that

you come home

to

[Music]

the stock market going crazy phones you

can look at each other you can look at

each other on the

phone [ __ ] walking around with

walkmans

i was gonna ask a question were you

while you were incarcerated so did jpay

still exist did it exist yet because

that's jp it's an app that you can

communicate and send money to people

that are incarcerated at least in new

york state yeah yeah i have some friends

that are incredible i recently found out

about that's all that's all new that's

that's fly to me you know what it says

fly but you know what was you know crazy

like i never seen a cell phone

like you shot his cell phone just i used

to look at a magazine and say yo how the

[ __ ] how do they talk on these people

now it's the jetsons [ __ ] we got

facetime that's just what i used to say

dudes

i said listen man i waited a long time

for the george jackson ever

so

that's the worst feeling though when you

living in the world that you're part of

but you're not yeah cars look funny

no

more style you know it's all good man

but what but i want to hear about what

the

reacclimation process oh

yeah so you know when i finally get like

ghosts he was like man listen man you

know i'm trying to learn i said he said

how the hell you know more than me

i said you know what i did i get on

youtube and watch that [ __ ] yo how you

work this how you work

you ain't got nothing but time to learn

we figured ghosts didn't quite learn all

the little iphone tricks

you know what now he learned it you know

that we all say but you know

i just was just i'm always determined to

learn new things you see what i'm saying

yeah like i never want to feel like i'm

left in the dust so yo how did the world

how did the world outside of your family

outside of your friends outside of your

foundation how did the world accept you

with regards to good question um jobs

with regards to you know just society

adapting to society or them adapting to

you

okay um good question everybody that

that know me

knew of my situation outside of them

that's what i'm saying outside of you

your foundation outside of the ghost

the world just step out and these white

people looking at you like you're a

felon or the new young [ __ ] yeah like

anybody that's the fact that it's

definitely different but for me um you

know i always work with ghost so i was

fortunate in that sense

i didn't have to sit in front and fill

out a job application and say yo

that's a blessing

i said that right here

i'm saying so so that's never my problem

right there but i think that i would

have articulated myself very uniquely in

front of them anyway well i would have

got a chance because i'm determined but

that's never my issue right but as far

as the way people view me and look at me

when they i i know females when they

first see me like

[ __ ] i know you did that like they just

stereotyped me off top i'm like yo until

they speak to me and they get to see

like oh this is a nice dude you know you

feel a light skinnedness yeah yeah yeah

man you feel a light skin yeah i'm with

you

you feel like i could hurt look dog i

would've got up in corporate america

tell me the girl that looked at you and

said no you did it you committed the

murder

none of them no i'm talking about the

other part i'm talking about that yo you

know i

articulated okay

but even as he said like i'm joking with

you but as he said i'm looking at him

you ain't doing it

i don't feel like that right

look at this [ __ ] taper these shades

these

well how'd you look when you first came

out

i was probably you know a little more

bigger but it's just you know what you

know it is when we come out of prison

like i see dudes that come on i be

looking i said damn i had that same look

you could just look in their eyes and

you could look at the structure and it's

just different yeah you could tell that

they had but they like that's like i'm

always wrong like i can't like i'm proud

of you okay

yeah yeah yeah yeah so i went through

[ __ ] so it's always like

like ghost he's like yo come on stage

i stood there for a little time

i'm out no

you do ice cream without me

i was like nah y'all

and half of them i don't even know who

the [ __ ] they are because everybody i

ain't changing

they're happy to see you not just that

you was 25 [ __ ] might have been 12

looking up to you yeah yeah yeah and i'm

sorry i remember you even if you don't

know him uh yeah the story true yeah has

grown [ __ ] if you got love for either

of these [ __ ] then that has

a million reasons why that could have

came about

but that's hard though yeah some hearts

yo listen i came out here i tell

everybody like y'all i say it's easy out

here it's hard in there

no no no i'm saying

i'm saying for me

i'm saying for me it's easy i'm saying

for me because now i have the power to

do what i want to do right you feel what

i'm saying you don't want to have that

you don't have that

everything is whatever you need a

package you need soap to wash your ass

you got to get on the phone and call

home yo can you send me money

in order to buy that soap you feel it

it's a business so it's different yeah

so i always that's why i said prison

kills your self-esteem

that's what i think it's always been

shocking to me about when my homies went

in and came back and told me stories is

like capitalism is still very prevalent

in there the same way it is out here dog

you know i'm saying the people that got

money in there are much better off than

the people don't have [ __ ] in new jersey

right yeah the governor the old governor

christy whitman yeah

her husband

was the the [ __ ] that you buy all the

clothes from in canteen

it was his company

the governor of the state of new jersey

because you can't wear your own [ __ ] no

more mm-hmm right so when you buy the

the the walmart nikes the coal nikes and

[ __ ] you're buying them from the

governor's husband a little markup

think about that my [ __ ] and they

selling they selling the coal nikes that

you could buy for 45

for 140 150

the gray sweats with their no pockets

them they selling them for 35 and 40

dollars the hamstrings that cost you

nine beans and that's the governor's

husband that's the governor of the

state's husband getting grant money and

stake money to do that

i don't want to be like these be the

billionaire [ __ ] behind closed doors

doing all the legislation to send more

[ __ ] to jail because i eat more yeah

100

100 that's the system right there i

don't want to be that guy there's an

incentive to keep sending

when your cape when a case like yours

come across no but he's guilty

and send them out for the long haul

because there's an incentive there

there's money i make more money bill we

need another jail we gotta pack this

want to show a need for another one

think about that dawg it's a fact that's

sick we can't ask for another jail

unless this one is over the jail has to

be at a certain capacity correct there's

there's an actual contract no we we

better make this one overcrowded on

purpose because we just bought a lot of

land over here right so we got a show we

got to show that we got a need for a new

prison if this one only hold 2500

[ __ ] we got to have 2 700 and

had them sleep under the cops in the

lobby so that now we could go before the

board and get a new prison

that's crazy son that's just how that

work

that's insane that's just big business

you know i the biggest business i keep

trying to like because i'm imagining i'm

imagining grant's story and i keep

trying to ask all these different

questions

and the thing that is consistent for me

that i hear and i see in you

is

no matter all the hardship i bring up

there's no deterrence yeah yeah yeah

yeah

yeah you just said you don't hear that

strong type of yeah i keep saying all

right well what about when the judge

first hit it all right what about when

they brought the jury in all right what

about your lawyer because like you're

saying what about the first meeting the

first week there all right listen what

about when you didn't see your kids

sammy said all right

you said you cried once i can't

keep throwing i've cried 90 times

asking him questions and he keeps saying

nah nah nigga's cool now i worked it out

got to be strong

listen i got a lot of pain in me right

but you know what like this is one thing

i realized about people like i didn't

know i didn't really i don't know no

other way to be

i was i was never really too much of a

really emotional type of guy from the

start

you follow what i'm saying so it's like

even when brothers call me they'd be

like yo one thing about you you was

never down

you just like you knew this [ __ ] that's

the most impressive thing i'm saying

listen i woke up the next day after i

went to the you know i had the press

conference in front of the court and

everything

and you know what was the best feeling

in the world i felt free i looked at the

daily news and seen me and my son

front page

you know what i'm saying it was like oh

that was good for me you know and then

my lawyer called me

and he said listen williams you know

i had a lot of cases you know this case

here is the highlight and he says

because of you you're very inspirational

you know what i'm saying

how did you eventually get free

it was uh well they had me go to the

parole boy and then the d.a and then

wrote to the boy yo we opened up this

case and then they let me out cause i

went before and they said nah two years

they said come back before it's in two

years i'm sure you must have worked a

couple times all right you must have won

a couple times now yeah i went there and

then i went in 90 days and then i went

the two years

and it was like nah so i'm in the parole

board because they want you to show

remorse yeah yeah for the for like the

crime this is a

whole different thing here so i'm like

i'm not because that's public

information how do you show her more are

you sure

hey look here you see what i'm telling

you the same thing i was telling them

i didn't do it i said i presented the

evidence i had that was actually inside

the courts

and i said i pushed it because you got

to give it to them early so they can

read it and they was just sitting there

looking at me like and they said you

didn't do it i'm like no i didn't do it

you know they said so why you seem so

much in good spirits like you know why

why are you making better i still can't

understand personally i said because i

have faith [ __ ] follow what i'm

saying and i believe the truth is going

to come

and they said you're an amazing person

like yeah

bam i'd have been i'd have been broke

already

i said yo i didn't do it and they looked

at the evidence in front of them and

they was flabbergasting me and they were

shocked like oh snap

like this is real we should have looked

at this 20 years ago

yeah

you got to feel on a parole board like

yo i work for some animals

like this is some [ __ ] i'm a part of

this

you know what i'm saying you like i'm a

part of this i'm a part of keeping a

man's freedom away from him and his

family now his two kids the god of

records day in the system god knows what

they don't been through and what they

wouldn't have went through had he been

home you asking for people to help you

feel like that if nine out of ten of the

[ __ ] i come across is guilty

still gotta

don't believe

it was a black lady on the first one

i had this one of the worst

commissioners they got commissioned but

they called commissions and actually

sent three of them and i had the worst

one he was a cop he was an ex-cop he was

talking to me like wait a minute like

you mean tell me you ain't shoot this

dude you ain't murderers dude you shot

him five times now i'm listening to them

tell us a story about somebody else you

ain't even know you know it's not you

yeah yeah so i said listen

and i convinced him like it wasn't me he

said listen if you get a letter from the

da's office in 90 days we'll reconsider

your release

i got the letter from the da's office

they said yes

i went back to the parole board totally

different people black lady

terrible i said you know i got the

reconsideration she said listen listen

williams i don't want to hear none of

that you convicted right now that's

court information

do you want to proceed with this

proceeding back in the journey wow i

said yeah go ahead let's let's proceed i

really knew she's going with two years

wow she said okay well um you caught

this game

i said well i did college i got my

degrees i explained everything so

because you know i was you know

educating myself we went to college

while he was locked up

i was just about to say your family yeah

i'm gonna keep it above with you you're

way more well spoken that [ __ ] have

been out here for 40 years yo yeah

no [ __ ] so i so i expressed that to

them and

she said okay good luck

yeah good [ __ ] i already know what

time you want to two years i'm saying to

them to them saying that two years is is

ten minutes time man to them ten minutes

that's what i'm saying to them two years

before you can come back and it might

not be me sitting here i might be a

vacation no it's definitely not her

sitting there no more it's different

commissioners

that's that that's what would really

frustrate me like you figure over the

course of 25 years i'm looking to see

someone with some familiarity to my case

somebody that maybe seen me sad last

time

like ma'am even if you do joe

they see so many people you're a number

yeah that's right you're not a case to

them you're not a there's no personal

attachment no matter how you felt okay

your number whatever whatever yeah yeah

okay here's the facts all right next sam

your case might have got on a dust that

morning at a glance do it like oh yeah

absolutely right so tell me about um

so tell me about your last day

what am i

[ __ ] like yo

i was up

check it out they had 20 years of

property

hey these pants are yours

you're not gonna bring these hey yo the

only [ __ ] was i was in the maxis for

like decades

so i never went to a medium so they was

like man they're gonna put you in the

media even though now listen i want

y'all to picture this right

you got this bottle right you know and

it's a warm shot shot you know i ain't

going nobody it's a wall around you so

you don't see the cars you don't see

[ __ ] all when you look up you see is

that [ __ ] wall excuse my language

y'all [ __ ]

but you see that wall right picture

being like that for danny two and a half

decades

you see what i'm saying you don't see

nothing so now they take me out of that

environment where it's hostile and then

they put and then they drop my

classification and they put me in a

medium now immediately this medium like

they got a fish that you can see the sun

yeah so i'm [ __ ] up so now

i come y'all

so i go in the reception part of me i'm

gonna do it's like you're on what up i'm

just ignoring them all right what up so

now i got my bag i'm looking at the cos

look good night no more i'm looking at

black

you know i'm like oh cause i went to a

hood yeah

right

skill so i'm like oh they got black

shields and she's looking nice right so

you know i'm not going to talk because

you know they be on some [ __ ] no so

i'm just looking right

then this song came on i just seen

freedom that boot up song by lma hey

hey hey

let me see

if i got it for you i just was just like

yo that [ __ ] i was like yo i'm going

home yo that's funny oh you put that on

we're gonna be dancing

oh

yo that is so funny this being your

release record that [ __ ] always

different and then i've seen then i

heard that song

and then it was like i was working off

the complex people was walking

[Music]

out of here so you know what i'm saying

check it out so on my last day right you

can't run up and down the complex let's

say we all yo yo what you gonna do when

you get out i said watch what the [ __ ] i

do i'm gonna run down that damn

confidence [ __ ]

[ __ ] i said watch they call me

time for me to go yes yo what's up i've

been waiting here it's eight in the

morning i'm like yo what's going on i

want to leave you know

he said williams you're gonna go when

they call walkways and programs when

everybody go right i said yeah i carried

that [ __ ] legal work i had and i ran

down to come

to walk with like a mouth they would say

[ __ ] stop running no no no no no no

no

i ran they said they [ __ ] we're gonna

lock you up yeah right and i ran

everybody was in the windows laughing

like yo and that was the end of that wow

nah we got to turn boot up up now

[Music]

it's so appropriate to me that this was

the song

this [ __ ] sounds like hope is at the end

of the tunnel

you know i do yo that's amazing man that

is amazing no that's nice even doper

that you came home to

a job yeah some family you know what i'm

saying like again i'm sure even when you

was locked up

again i don't really be big on the hope

[ __ ] but when you was locked up the fact

that you know your people's out here

moving and shaking

and you gonna come home to something

like they ain't [ __ ] [ __ ] they here

they not [ __ ] [ __ ] yeah they're here

with you today and your people they

forget you you know what i'm saying like

your people's right there and not for

nothing i'll be counting no other man

pockets but i'm sure they they are

yeah i'm sure they uh

i'm sure he was looking at it

[Music]

i'm saying that uh you know some [ __ ]

don't even come home to that for real no

for real some people come home to just

them that's what i'm saying everybody

forgot oh please man this [ __ ] came

home the wu-tang docks yeah churchill

golfing

he came home he came home and mad [ __ ]

he had catching up to do when he came

again that's a blessing and i'm sure you

can't wait like you talking to ghosts

let's say you talk to ghosts once every

six months [ __ ] it right

to keep you alive

i don't know if y'all did this because

this might be even more depressing but

yo what you been doing how you doing i'm

good i just came from even that bro you

put your pictures on your walls like

this

i can't wait i can't wait like you like

i can't wait i can't wait that's the

inspiration in itself that's

that's it that's it you know what i'm

saying like that's an inspiration like

i'm gonna get y'all [ __ ] ain't gonna

kill me in here

i'm getting out getting this good box my

man traveling to every cushion

i was happy for him that's the other

[ __ ] though

i'm getting that other [ __ ] overseas

that part let's see listen to that even

but for me even that speaks to the the

no deterrence that i hear in you

it's all happiness yeah i was happy for

my voice

in a hole or in them walls

you might have had to deal with that

hate

that's true if it's there that's no i'm

sure not hate for your man of course

but no hey i ain't there

hate that this is happening without me

the for that even that for that to get

blocked out man yeah yeah this guy

you're different no

i was happy for all of them i was like

ah cause i was dead so i know you know

what i'm saying but no the fact that you

was there making it harder though you

hear me that was stressing me out like

watching the tv the wall they were like

i like it i'm not watching that [ __ ]

because i cuz i know that fell like nah

that [ __ ] stressed me out but when i see

the video i'm like yeah

you know what i'm saying

you're bragging and [ __ ] that's about

that yeah yeah yo you know brothers just

moving on and you would have said you

might have had a hard time in there if

like these [ __ ] was ass

like they was them [ __ ] so

they was them [ __ ] so everything was

cool

i'm never gonna have a hard time you

have to film

i'm amazing

so now

freedom we out actually no before i get

to that you mentioned around 0.102

laws started changing uh they started

coming up with different clicks and and

just non-profit people to help right

me as a daca guy huge doc guy

inside did you feel that play any part

and change in social climate like

like i talk a lot here about the world

becoming more sensitive like with these

kids and just things that they won't

accept anymore and these docs are coming

out about wrongful convictions in jail

did you feel the world change out there

with like what they were paying

attention to yes yes yes i did because

what happened is

you got violent crimes and you got

non-violent crimes right

and the non-violent crimes remember the

rockefeller lawsuit yeah

you know and i was around i think that

was around the time when i'm building

spelling when i was working so i've been

in there for a lot so when i seen that

we used to be like yo but how about for

the violent so then when i seen them

grabbing the violent bills and passing

them and i've seen people advocating for

people that's you know they got violent

crimes they got innocent they're not

seeing the whole world changing far

socially speaking about it recognizing

it and once you do that that's when

change is going to come about so yeah

i've seen that

your day

now

free

starts how like your first thought in

the mornings

for me

i used to be depressed so

every morning that i wake up i'd just be

happy to wake up

everybody up we got another one shut up

we back at it all right

yeah yeah yeah

i'm a happy man

is it strange at all is it did you ever

wake up

oh [ __ ]

like the other day i woke up

i was like oh [ __ ] i told say yo

i just had a dream i was backing i've

been having dreams but this time when i

was in there after i got exonerated on

tv it was like i was in there and it was

like yo i'm just got exonerated

everybody was happy because i always

left good energy in there you know what

i'm saying so they was like yo uncles

they because they called tell me this

all the time you're on your out but i

was dead it's like yo what you doing in

here i said now i'm just you know coming

to check i said i don't know what i'm

doing here you know i'm dreaming you

know what i'm saying but

it was never like i knew i was stuck in

there still like ever since i got

exonerated before that i'm like damn i'm

back in jail i'm in the yard i'm about

to go at it again you know it's always

to get up count whatever whatever you

know

and you know i guess i have them for the

rest of my life

that's the mental scars

physical scars hail up and all that [ __ ]

but the mental scars is the one that

could damage anybody whether you're

incarcerated whether you're free if

you're dealing with some type of mental

scars and you start dealing with

depression you got to find yourself you

got to dig in yourself and find what's

causing this to happen it's like i said

on tv right the problem is people deal

with the leaves they don't go to the

root you see i'm saying when you start

digging in the root of the channel

life would be more better than this

would be more understandable you know

it's deep

so

you don't have to answer this uh [ __ ] is

probably in the works

but

a doc

your phone i'm sure your phone is off

the hook for sure i'm sure people are

blowing you blowing it up

this was my first interview right here

all right hey

talk to him appreciate it appreciate

that

get the time stamp on that

parks loop it up

we're gonna put that out make sure that

message is felt now listen first of all

i appreciate that yeah no no thank you

real talk um

i'm glad you came this is i'm blown away

i'm i'm blown away i'm so blown away i

didn't even ask you half of the [ __ ]

that i want to ask because this this

story is just

it's crazy i can't i can't imagine i

can't imagine i can't picture it thank

god you're home i'm happy for you i'm